NA cities with direct rail link airport-downtown

Question:

> > Actually I was thinking of cities like Vienna or Stockholm where the > rail station is downstairs in one of the terminal buildings, and this direct > rail link takes a passenger to a downtown station where he/she can > either walk to a downtown destination or walk through the station to > connect to another rail or metro.  I prefer trains much more than busses. > In Vienna it’s across the street from the terminal, though there is an > underground walkway. > But almost every major European airport has a train connection of that > quality.

I suppose it depends how ‘major’ an airport is, but neither of the two busiest Scottish airports have rail connections. The new ATH still has a bus connection to the subway, right? What about BUD? — David Horne- www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

> >> Because the OP was, I think, asking about local connections. > Actually I was thinking of cities like Vienna or Stockholm where the > rail station is downstairs in one of the terminal buildings, and this direct > rail link takes a passenger to a downtown station where he/she can > either walk to a downtown destination or walk through the station to > connect to another rail or metro.  I prefer trains much more than

busses. Light rail from BWI will get you to Penn Station (railway) in Baltimore, but you have to change once. http://www.mtamaryland.com/services/lightrail/schedule/map.cfm However this doesn’t make much sense considering the short shuttle bus ride to BWI’s own rail station.

Response:

> In that case DCA (National Airport) qualifies (Subway comes to the Airport, > you can connect to Distance Rail at Union Station) but BWI, where you must > get on a shuttle for aobut 10 minutes to the on -airport rail station > does not.

As mentioned in another post, a light rail line does serve the BWI airport.  Here is a link to an airport map that shows the location of the line: http://www.bwiairport.com/customer_assistance/airlines_services_map/ (Look near the bottom of the map, beside the International Terminal.) The shuttle bus to the Amtrak/MARC train station leaves from a stop close to the light rail station at the airport.

Response:

> Really?  I was not aware of the  light rail into the terminal.   > But I come to BWI from DC, not from Baltimore, so this is one of those > experience limitations.

It’s at the far end of the terminal (the international end). Very easy not to notice if you always arrive by bus. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

>> While you are correct about this, the APTA table lists LR.  As listed in > BWI’s website: > "Light Rail service is available to downtown Baltimore and Hunt Valley from > BWI." > The rail also goes to DC from BWI.

The light rail that’s actually at the airport only goes to Baltimore. To get to DC you need to take the shuttle bus to the Amtrak/MARC station or to Greenbelt Metro (all heavy rail). miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

> Actually I was thinking of cities like Vienna or Stockholm where the > rail station is downstairs in one of the terminal buildings, and this direct > rail link takes a passenger to a downtown station where he/she can > either walk to a downtown destination or walk through the station to > connect to another rail or metro.  I prefer trains much more than busses.

In Vienna it’s across the street from the terminal, though there is an underground walkway. But almost every major European airport has a train connection of that quality. A huge difference to the US where it’s a remarkable thing. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

>But almost every major European airport has a train connection of that >quality. A huge difference to the US where it’s a remarkable thing.

It’s not that remarkable.  In the past year or two I’ve taken trains directly to or from the terminal at MDW, ORD, PHL, DCA, ATL, and SFO. I’ve observed the trains at CLE and STL although I didn’t happen to be going downtown from either. The airport that most desperately needs a rail link is LGA, and there’s a subway line not too far away, but the NIMBYs will never let it happen. — Regards, John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 330 5711 Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail

Response:

>>The airport that most desperately needs a rail link is LGA, and >there’s a subway line not too far away, but the NIMBYs will never let >it happen. >It’s much more complicated than that now. The Port Authority of NY/NJ >really has no interest in offering one-seat rides, because it doesn’t >make money on the largest portion of the trip (the subway) since it >doesn’t own it. That’s why you have these incompatible systems like >the one linking the "A" to JFK.

True.  There was some thought of the JFK airtrain running on the LIRR tracks into Penn Station.  The trains could do it, technically very close to LIRR, but I guess the politics were impenetrable. >If NIMBY was the only issue, you wouldn’t have an elevated rail line >carrying Amtrak trains going right through the area.

Uh, that line was built in 1916, around the time the NIMBYs’ grandmothers were born.  I suppose that they could put the subway over the Grand Central Parkway, which is already fairly ugly, at vast cost. R’s, John

Response:

> > BWI – Shuttle bus [free] to heavy [really intercity] rail line (Amtrak, > MARC) > While you are correct about this, the APTA table lists LR.  As listed in > BWI’s website: > "Light Rail service is available to downtown Baltimore and Hunt Valley from > BWI."

The intent of my list was to identify locations where there were bus connections to nearby rail service. This was in addition to the APTA list I cited, which already covered the airports with service directly into the terminals, so I didn’t repeat them. In some cases, the airports included in my list were duplicates to the direct service list on the APTA web site.   Baltimore is such a case, as it has both a light rail line into the terminal, and a shuttle bus to the BWI Airport rail station where one can catch either Amtrak or MARC trains.  The MARC trains will take a passenger into Baltimore or Washington DC. > ORD – Shuttle bus to nearby Metra line > Again, from ORD’s website: > "The Chicago Transit Authority’s Blue Line travels > between O’Hare and downtown Chicago."

As with Baltimore, this is an airport with both a direct connection (the CTA Blue Line) and a shuttle bus to a nearby rail station on the North Central line: http://metrarail.com/Sched/ncs/ohare.shtml

Response:

> The intent of my list was to identify locations where there were bus > connections to nearby rail service. This was in addition to the APTA > list I cited, which already covered the airports with service directly > into the terminals, so I didn’t repeat them. In some cases, the airports > included in my list were duplicates to the direct service list on the > APTA web site.   > Baltimore is such a case, as it has both a light rail line into the > terminal, and a shuttle bus to the BWI Airport rail station where one > can catch either Amtrak or MARC trains.  The MARC trains will take a > passenger into Baltimore or Washington DC.

Really?  I was not aware of the  light rail into the terminal.   But I come to BWI from DC, not from Baltimore, so this is one of those experience limitations. Julie > > ORD – Shuttle bus to nearby Metra line > Again, from ORD’s website: > "The Chicago Transit Authority’s Blue Line travels > between O’Hare and downtown Chicago." > As with Baltimore, this is an airport with both a direct connection (the > CTA Blue Line) and a shuttle bus to a nearby rail station on the North > Central line: > http://metrarail.com/Sched/ncs/ohare.shtml

– Julie I could be wrong.  My experience is limited to my experience. Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

>> Because the OP was, I think, asking about local connections. > Actually I was thinking of cities like Vienna or Stockholm where the > rail station is downstairs in one of the terminal buildings, and this direct > rail link takes a passenger to a downtown station where he/she can > either walk to a downtown destination or walk through the station to > connect to another rail or metro.  I prefer trains much more than busses.

In that case DCA (National Airport) qualifies (Subway comes to the Airport, you can connect to Distance Rail at Union Station) but BWI, where you must get on a shuttle for aobut 10 minutes to the on -airport rail station does not. — Julie I could be wrong.  My experience is limited to my experience. Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

> While you are correct about this, the APTA table lists LR.  As listed in > BWI’s website: > "Light Rail service is available to downtown Baltimore and Hunt Valley from > BWI."

The rail also goes to DC from BWI. And National Airport does have metro right there.  Last week we went to the Dominican Republic, flew back, got on metro took the train back to our home (well, my husband walked home (about a half mile) and I waited for him to drive to the station and pick up four suitcases.  When we do backpack- style travel, we can walk to the metro and take train to either DCA or BWI. Julie y — Julie I could be wrong.  My experience is limited to my experience. Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

>> BWI Baltimore/Washington  Also a shuttle bus to the BWI station > on the main rail line between DC and Baltimore, Philly, New York. > I’m probably showing my bias here, but why not continue and say Stamford, > New Haven, Providence, and Boston (South Station).

Because the OP was, I think, asking about local connections.  True BWI has a train station for Amtrak only a short shuttle ride away, and fits in this group, but it’s also light rail, the MARC system, which is local. — Julie I could be wrong.  My experience is limited to my experience. Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Response:

> Because the OP was, I think, asking about local connections.

Actually I was thinking of cities like Vienna or Stockholm where the rail station is downstairs in one of the terminal buildings, and this direct rail link takes a passenger to a downtown station where he/she can either walk to a downtown destination or walk through the station to connect to another rail or metro.  I prefer trains much more than busses. Pete

Response:

> Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? > Pete

Vancouver (YVR) will have it around 2008 or 09.  They are about to start and it will be ready for the Olympics. Kent

Response:

> BWI Baltimore/Washington  Also a shuttle bus to the BWI station > on the main rail line between DC and Baltimore, Philly, New York.

I’m probably showing my bias here, but why not continue and say Stamford, New Haven, Providence, and Boston (South Station).

Response:

> BWI – Shuttle bus [free] to heavy [really intercity] rail line (Amtrak, > MARC)

While you are correct about this, the APTA table lists LR.  As listed in BWI’s website: "Light Rail service is available to downtown Baltimore and Hunt Valley from BWI." >ORD – Shuttle bus to nearby Metra line

Again, from ORD’s website: "The Chicago Transit Authority’s Blue Line travels between O’Hare and downtown Chicago." Also, and unfortunately, PVD won’t be next year.

Response:

> Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others?

BWI Baltimore/Washington has light rail – part of the Baltimore system – right at the terminal.  Also a shuttle bus to the BWI station on the main rail line between DC and Baltimore, Philly, New York.

Response:

>Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the >airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago >has the blue line ‘L’.  What others?

Newark International has New Jersey transit trains to Newark and Manhattan. Philadelphia international has direct trains to three different stations in Philadelphia. — Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the >> > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago >> > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? > For Chicago, there’s also the Orange Line ‘L’ to Midway.  Also the South > Shore Line’s station in South Bend is at the South Bend airport (but who > would fly to South Bend to get to Chicago?  Maybe to Michigan City…) > <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Chicago/SouthShore/Airpo…> >> PDX >> SFO >> ATL >> LAS (eventually) >> STL >> PVD (next year?) >> Washington-Reagen (not been there, but heard something about it???) > Yes, the terminal building is right next to the Metro station. > <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Washington/Metro/Airport…> >Add MSP > Cleveland.  (Red Line to downtown) > <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Cleveland/Red/Airport.jpg> > Philadelphia.  (Regional Rail to downtown, er, Center City) > Milwaukee.  (Amtrak just opened a station at the airport, on the > Milwaukee-Chicago route) > And if it doesn’t have to be a one-seat ride: > Newark NJ (monorail to train to Penn Station in either Newark or New York) > New York (JFK) (Airtrain to Jamaica, where you can take either the subway > or the Long Island RR to Manhattan)

Here is a list of airports with a direct rail link into the airport terminals.: http://www.apta.com/research/stats/rail/airport.cfm The list is from APTA’s web site.  It excludes places where you need a bus or van transfer, or where the line doesn’t come directly into the airport. (I think the only one missing on people’s suggestion lists so far is Baltimore’s light rail line): As mentioned by others, there are also airports where a short bus link will take passengers to a nearby rail station, or where the station is very close. Included would be the following: SAN – Scheduled bus to nearby rail lines (Amtrak, Coaster, Trolley) LAX – Bus to nearby light rail line BUR – Short walk to Metrolink commuter line SJC – Shuttle bus to Metro light rail and Caltrain stations OAK – Shuttle bus to nearby BART station BOS – Shuttle bus to "T" BWI – Shuttle bus to heavy rail line (Amtrak, MARC) ORD – Shuttle bus to nearby Metra line PBI – Shuttle bus to nearby commuter line (Tri-rail) FLL – Shuttle bus to nearby commuter line (Tri-rail) MIA – Shuttle bus to nearby commuter line (Tri-rail) MKE – Shuttle bus to nearby Amtrak station YUL – Shuttle bus to VIA Rail and AMT commuter stations The above came to mind, but there are probably many others.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? > > Pete > PDX > SFO > ATL > LAS (eventually) > STL > PVD (next year?) > Washington-Reagen (not been there, but heard something about it???) > Add MSP

Add BOS

Response:

>> > Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others?

For Chicago, there’s also the Orange Line ‘L’ to Midway.  Also the South Shore Line’s station in South Bend is at the South Bend airport (but who would fly to South Bend to get to Chicago?  Maybe to Michigan City…) <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Chicago/SouthShore/Airpo…> > PDX > SFO > ATL > LAS (eventually) > STL > PVD (next year?) > Washington-Reagen (not been there, but heard something about it???)

Yes, the terminal building is right next to the Metro station. <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Washington/Metro/Airport…> >Add MSP

Cleveland.  (Red Line to downtown) <http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Cleveland/Red/Airport.jpg> Philadelphia.  (Regional Rail to downtown, er, Center City) Milwaukee.  (Amtrak just opened a station at the airport, on the Milwaukee-Chicago route) And if it doesn’t have to be a one-seat ride: Newark NJ (monorail to train to Penn Station in either Newark or New York) New York (JFK) (Airtrain to Jamaica, where you can take either the subway or the Long Island RR to Manhattan) — Dept. of Physics and Computer Science        Clinton, South Carolina USA

Response:

> Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? > Pete

PDX SFO ATL LAS (eventually) STL PVD (next year?) Washington-Reagen (not been there, but heard something about it???)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the > airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago > has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? > Pete > PDX > SFO > ATL > LAS (eventually) > STL > PVD (next year?) > Washington-Reagen (not been there, but heard something about it???)

Add MSP

Response:

Which cities in Canada and the USA have direct rail links from the airport to downtown?  Minneapolis has Metro Transit and Chicago has the blue line ‘L’.  What others? Pete

Response:

"Coffee, Tea or Handcuffs? An Australian journalist gets a taste of Dept. of Homeland Security 'hospitality' "

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > x-no-archive: yes > America. > Coffee, Tea or Handcuffs? > An Australian journalist gets a taste of Department of > Homeland Security hospitality > by Steven Mikulan > ‘LA Weekly’ > Sue Smethurst enjoys traveling. It’s one of the things > about my job that I absolutely love," says the 30-year-old > Australian, who works as an associate editor for the > women’s magazine New Idea. She doesn’t even mind flying. > "It’s one of the great pleasures of the world to be able to > turn off your cell phone and be where no one can annoy > you." > But when her Qantas flight from Melbourne, Australia, > touched down at LAX around 8 a.m. on Friday, November 14, > Smethurst found herself nightmarishly annoyed – by the > Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Smethurst was > supposed to continue to New York and on Monday interview > singer Olivia Newton-John. Smethurst had honeymooned in > Manhattan last year and was looking forward to a long, free > weekend having a good walk through Central Park, getting a > decent bowl of chicken soup and going Christmas shopping – > all those gorgeous New York things." > Better still, her six-hour layover in L.A. would allow her > to have lunch with her American literary agent. "I had a > room booked at the Airport Hilton, where I was going to my > leave bags, shower and get a cup of coffee." > But first she had to clear LAX’s immigration check-in, > which she reached after 20 minutes in line. An officer from > the DHS’s newly minted Customs and Border Protection (CBP) > bureau studied the traveler’s declaration form Smethurst > had filled out on the plane. > "Oh, you’re a journalist," he noted. "What are you here > for?" > "I’m interviewing Olivia Newton-John," Smethurst replied. > "That’s nice," the official said, impressed. "What’s the > article about?" > "Breast cancer." > When Smethurst tells me this, she pauses and adds, "I > thought that last question was a little odd, but figured > everything’s different now in America and it was fine." > What she didn’t know was that her assignment and travel > plans, along with the chicken soup and stroll through > Central Park, had been terminated the moment she confirmed > she was a journalist.

   Bad idea, she should have lied, and told then she was in America on holiday. Customs would never have known the difference. I am with an E-zine in Australia, and I travel the world, and I NEVER tell Customs, in whatever country I go to that I am a journalist.    When she went to send her story back to her paper in Australia, she could just simply hide her activities on the Internet by using a proxy to connect to her home office. Anyone monitoring the Net would know that she connected to a proxy server, but they would not know where she went BEYOND that proxy server.    So all your journalists out there can learn something here. Just simply lie on your Customs form, and tell them you are here on Holiday. You can simply hide behind a proxy server to send your articles to your paper back home, and nobody will know what you are up to. All the server logs of whatever ISP you are using will say is that you connected to the address of a proxy, and on a specific port. A lot of reporters do this to avoid the special visa requirement for journalists. For anyone cotemplating this, you can find lists of proxies, in which you can hide your activities, at: http://www.atomintersoft.com   – AtomInterSoft (also has updated Socks proxy lists) http://www.stayinvisible.com   – Stay Invisible proxy list.    Not I am a USA/Oz dual, so entering the USA is not a problem for me. However, to avoid problems in other countries, I just simply lie on my Customs form (if the country I am entering has one), and tell them I am there on holiday, and Customs is NEVER the wiser.    The lesson here is to simply leave it off your Customs declaration form that you are a journalist, and nobody will never get wiser.

Response:

I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being quoted? Would be nice to see the entire article.  Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell US immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow Australian?  What did US immigration do to her after that? Is this what the Aussies get for being part of the Iraqi invasion coalition?  Nice touch USA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> my idea of America. > Coffee, Tea or Handcuffs? > An Australian journalist gets a taste of Department of > Homeland Security hospitality > by Steven Mikulan > ‘LA Weekly’ > But when her Qantas flight from Melbourne, Australia, > touched down at LAX around 8 a.m. on Friday, November 14, > Smethurst found herself nightmarishly annoyed – by the > Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Smethurst was > supposed to continue to New York and on Monday interview > singer Olivia Newton-John. Smethurst had honeymooned in > Manhattan last year and was looking forward to a long, free > weekend having a good walk through Central Park, getting a > decent bowl of chicken soup and going Christmas shopping – > all those gorgeous New York things." > Better still, her six-hour layover in L.A. would allow her > to have lunch with her American literary agent. "I had a > room booked at the Airport Hilton, where I was going to my > leave bags, shower and get a cup of coffee." > But first she had to clear LAX’s immigration check-in, > which she reached after 20 minutes in line. An officer from > the DHS’s newly minted Customs and Border Protection (CBP) > bureau studied the traveler’s declaration form Smethurst > had filled out on the plane. > "Oh, you’re a journalist," he noted. "What are you here > for?" > "I’m interviewing Olivia Newton-John," Smethurst replied. > "That’s nice," the official said, impressed. "What’s the > article about?" > "Breast cancer." > When Smethurst tells me this, she pauses and adds, "I > thought that last question was a little odd, but figured > everything’s different now in America and it was fine." > What she didn’t know was that her assignment and travel > plans, along with the chicken soup and stroll through > Central Park, had been terminated the moment she confirmed > she was a journalist.

Why?  Where’s the rest of the story? >    Bad idea, she should have lied, and told then she was in > America on holiday. Customs would never have known the > difference.

What was wrong with telling them the truth? > I am with an E-zine in Australia, and I travel the world, > and I NEVER tell Customs, in whatever country I go to that > I am a journalist.

Is the land of the free, the world’s only god-given democracy, somehow a bad place to be a journalist? > When she went to send her story back to her paper in Australia, > she could just simply hide her activities on the Internet by > using a proxy to connect to her home office.

Oh puuleeze. > Anyone monitoring the Net would know that she connected > to a proxy server,

Who the hell do you think is going to be monitoring her, or anyone else they let through into the country?  You are one paranoid puppy.

Response:

> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > quoted? > Would be nice to see the entire article.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/04/open-mikulan.php > Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell US > immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow Australian?

Because journalists require special visas. miguel — Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

@nwrddc02.gnilink.net: > I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > quoted? > Would be nice to see the entire article. > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/04/open-mikulan.php > Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell US > immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow Australian? > Because journalists require special visas. > miguel

I travel a lot for a legitimate business purpose, to educate mayself about travel destinations (I sell travel) yet I always put down leisure as my reason for travel. Is this wrong? I really don’t think so as I am not selling on the trips but to tell customs people may cause them to scratch their fuzzy ointed heads. One doesn’t want to feed or awaken trolls (in this case the hiding under air terminal arrival area type).

Response:

:>> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being :>> quoted? :>> Would be nice to see the entire article. :>http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/04/open-mikulan.php :>> Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell US :>> immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow Australian? :>Because journalists require special visas. Yes. It appears that the Australian either did not bother to learn the VISA requirement or did not feel that she had to pay any attention to it. I wonder if the airline was fined. — http://www.dissensoftware.com

Response:

> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > quoted? > Would be nice to see the entire article.  Why exactly was it wrong for > an Australian journalist to tell US immigration that she was in the US > to interview a fellow Australian?  What did US immigration do to her > after that?

Nothing wrong with that as long as you have an "I" visa. Tourists aren’t permitted tow work. The journalist was entering on a tourist visa and planned to work.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > :>> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > :>> quoted? > :>> Would be nice to see the entire article. > :>http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/04/open-mikulan.php > :>> Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell US > :>> immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow Australian? > :>Because journalists require special visas. > Yes. > It appears that the Australian either did not bother to learn the VISA > requirement or did not feel that she had to pay any attention to it. > I wonder if the airline was fined.

Probably not  It is possible the airline didn’t know the journalist was going to be working.

Response:

> > Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell > US immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow > Australian? > Nothing wrong with that as long as you have an "I" visa. > Tourists aren’t permitted tow work. The journalist was entering > on a tourist visa and planned to work.

But presumably she was not being paid by a US employer, ie she was not *earning* money in the US from a US source. Canadian sales rep’s routinely travel into the US to perform demos, participate in arranged sales meetings, attend trade shows, etc, and never is any visa required. I know it’s VERY important that if traveling to the US (for business or any other reason) that in no way do you give the impression that you are being paid by a US source for anything you are going to do in the US (unless you make the paperwork arrangements before-hand). Perhaps the same logic or intent isin’t extended to foreiners other than Canadians.  I know as a CDN that when travelling to Europe there is NO such concern whether you are entering EU for business (and whether you’re being paid by an EU client or not).  At least I’ve never got anywhere near the same scrutiny when entering EU vs US. Maybe in 50 or 100 years the customs and immigration hassles will dissappear between US and CDN just like there is no such hassle between Mich and Ohio (or Germany and Netherlands, etc).

Response:

 >  >>>Why exactly was it wrong for an Australian journalist to tell  >>>US immigration that she was in the US to interview a fellow  >>>Australian?  >>  >>Nothing wrong with that as long as you have an "I" visa.  >>Tourists aren’t permitted tow work. The journalist was entering  >>on a tourist visa and planned to work.  >  >  > But presumably she was not being paid by a US employer, ie she was not  > *earning* money in the US from a US source. That doesn’t matter. What matters is where the work was performed, not who paid for it.  >  > Canadian sales rep’s routinely travel into the US to perform demos,  > participate in arranged sales meetings, attend trade shows, etc, and  > never is any visa required. All of which are permitted under a B-1 or the Canadian visa program. The equivalent in this case would be if the Sales Rep actually "worked" That is, the sales rep would not be permitted to sell things in the US without the appropriate visa.

Response:

> The equivalent in this case would be if the Sales Rep actually "worked" > That is, the sales rep would not be permitted to sell things in the US > without the appropriate visa.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but people don’t need special visas to go "on business" to a conference, meetings, attend a sales pitch from a potential US vendor. This is all "business" travel from the point of view of which box you put a check mark in on the immigration form. Consider the number of flights that have been operaterd between Canada and the USA even before the free trade agreements. There was no way that every single passenger would have required some form of visa just because this was a business trip. Going to conferences, seminars, 2-3 day courses, meetings etc are all considered "benign" by customs forlks if you are an employee of a company. (you are only fulfilling your responabilities and it is your company that actual does the trade between itself and its US counterparts). If you are meeting a (potential) US supplier for a sales pitch, then there is no reason the immigration folks should stop you. However, if you plan on knocking on US doors to seek sales opportunities for foreign products, or worse, seek employment, then you can expect rough treatment, unless you have the right paperwork. FTA/NAFTA didn’t remove the need for paperwork, it only make it easier to obtain. The trick is to send a clear message that you are just an employee doing what your employer has told you what to do, and that you have no idea of the contract issues between your company and the company you are visiting. As far as the australian journalist, she should have just said "I am meeting a friend and going shopping in New York".. There are perhaps special cases for journalists though. News organisatiosn have to get approval/acrreditation to be allowed to operate a news bureau in a country. The BBC , for instance, is barred from Zimbabwe. They are not allowed to send reporters to that country. While we may see a difference between covering a country’s internal affairs (for instance, foreign journalists covering White House issues) and a foreign journalists just coming here to do an interview and then going back to home country, perhaps the immigration folks cannot make a difference between the two.

Response:

>>The equivalent in this case would be if the Sales Rep actually "worked" >That is, the sales rep would not be permitted to sell things in the US >without the appropriate visa. > Sorry to rain on your parade, but people don’t need special visas to go "on > business" to a conference, meetings, attend a sales pitch from a potential US > vendor. This is all "business" travel from the point of view of which box you > put a check mark in on the immigration form.

You aren’t raining on my parade. There is a bit of difference between making a sales pitch and receiving one. DO you not agree that the sales rep would need a visa?   The journalist was required to have an I visa and didn’t have one. Go argue with Immigration.  As I have noted, there are certain permitted activities under a B-2 or a visa waiver, working as a journalist is not one of them. > Consider the number of flights that have been operaterd between Canada and the > USA even before the free trade agreements. There was no way that every single > passenger would have required some form of visa just because this was a > business trip. > Going to conferences, seminars, 2-3 day courses, meetings etc are all > considered "benign" by customs forlks if you are an employee of a company. > (you are only fulfilling your responabilities and it is your company that > actual does the trade between itself and its US counterparts).

Didn’t I say that? > As far as the australian journalist, she should have just said "I am meeting a > friend and going shopping in New York"..

That would be fraud and subject her to a lifetime ban. What she should have done was obtain the proper visa.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > quoted? > Would be nice to see the entire article.  Why exactly was it wrong for > an Australian journalist to tell US immigration that she was in the US > to interview a fellow Australian?  What did US immigration do to her > after that? > Nothing wrong with that as long as you have an "I" visa. > Tourists aren’t permitted tow work. The journalist was entering on a > tourist visa and planned to work.

   I read in another article on this that she is the exception, rather than the rule. She was stupid enough to tell customs that she was on assignment for her paper. She should have simply left it OFF her Customs declaration form that she was coming to interview Olivia Newton John. customs would never have been the wiser. I read that a lot of foreign journalists come in without the proper "I" visa, and just simply lie to Customs about what they are doing and get away with it.    I travel around the world for my E-zine, and this is where being a USA/Australia dual pays off. Mexico has practically the same requirement for foreign journalists, but I get away without a journalist visa. I have been to Mexico a few times, but I just simply switch over to my U.S. passport, and just simply LIE to Mexican Customs about the purpose of my visit. I tell them I am entering the country as a tourist, and get the standard 180-day tourist permit that Americans can get at the border. Customs in Mexico is NEVER the wiser.     Anyone travelling to either Mexico or the USA can do this. Just leave it OFF your Customs declaration form that you are coming in for journalistic reasons. Customs will NEVER be the wiser. Also, if you send your stories back to your paper, via the Internet, you can hide your activities using an open proxy server. The logs of the local ISP you are using will say went to the proxy, but where you went BEYOND that proxy, they would NEVER know.     Journalistic visas are more difficult to obtain. It is just so much EASIER to LIE to customs, in ANY country I go to, about the purpose of my visit.

Response:

>    I read in another article on this that she is the exception, rather > than the rule. She was stupid enough to tell customs that she was on > assignment for her paper. She should have simply left it OFF her Customs > declaration form that she was coming to interview Olivia Newton John. > customs would never have been the wiser. I read that a lot of foreign > journalists come in without the proper "I" visa, and just simply lie > to Customs about what they are doing and get away with it.

The right thing to do is to get a visa. Of course, you have already stated you beliefs about obeying the laws you dislike, such as being a US citizen and spending money in North Korea. I would wager that you have never filed a US tax return, as you believe your Australian citizenship means you are not subject to the terms of your US citizenship. If that is the case, then why not formally renounce your US citizenship?  I know quite a few journalists that enter the US on I visas. Just because it is easier to not get one doesn’t mean you aren’t supposed to have one. Post 9/11, you really don’t want to be caught lying to HS about your intentions while in the US. Legitimate journalist   s should know how to legally enter the US to do their job.

Response:

Toledo Blade Editorials | Article published Saturday, December 13, 2003 A repressive embarrassment Anyone who thinks the administration and its law enforcement chief, Attorney General John Ashcroft, aren’t out to impede a free press need only hear how the federal government is treating foreign journalists coming to this country on assignment. Without notification to foreign media outlets, the immigration and customs people are arresting, detaining, and deporting journalists arriving here without special visas. This is so even when they come from nations whose citizens can stay for up to 90 days without a visa if they are arriving as tourists or on business. If that threatening form of registration is not enough, members of the press arriving without the visas, which no one told them they needed, are treated like criminals, handcuffed as they’re marched through airports, photographed, fingerprinted, and their DNA taken. Peter Krobath, chief editor for the Austrian movie magazine Skip, was held overnight in a cold room with 45 others who arrived without the visa. The room had two open toilets, a metal bench, and a concrete bench. He was here to interview movie star Ben Affleck and see the movie Paycheck. Thomas Sjoerup, a photographer for the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, was deported after a few hours during which a mugshot, fingerprints, and DNA sample were taken. A French journalist said he and five others from his country were marched across the airport in handcuffs, without belts or laces. The International Press Institute in Vienna, a media freedom group, has complained not only about Mr. Korbath’s treatment but also, and indeed more important, the fact that only foreign journalists need special visas. The Brussels-based International Federation of Journalists is about to launch a global campaign against the absurd and repressive rule that casts suspicion on working journalists who come to this country on business as valid as any other traveler’s. A U.S. embassy official in Vienna said visas have always been required. If that requirement existed, it was more honored in its breach and ought to be rescinded. It should not take a world media outcry to address this problem. It’s a policy that puts these United States in the ranks of Third World dictatorships. Members of Congress, regardless of party, who understand the absurdity of it all, even in these troubled times, should demand an end to this repressive embarrassment. It’s not likely President Bush ever will. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031213/OPINIO…

Response:

> > As far as the australian journalist, she should have just said "I am meeting a > friend and going shopping in New York".. > That would be fraud and subject her to a lifetime ban.

   Not if she was smart enough to hide her activities. I will say once AGAIN that you can hide your activities on the Internet. All she would had to have done was set up her computer at home for remote access. Unlike a lot of US cities, a lot of the homes in Melbourne have some kind of always-on broadband access available. When it came time to send her story back to paper, she could have just simply connected to PC at home, and then used that to connect to the computer at her paper. Anyone in the USA monitoring the traffic would know she connected to her home PC, but there is no POSSIBLE way they could find out what she was doing on her home PC, or where she went BEYOND her home PC, because the logs on the USA side of the connection would only show the connection to her home PC. The connection beyond that to the computers at her paper would not show up, and being that her home computer is in Australia, the US Government would be unable to subpoena any information on where she went beyond her home PC.    As I have said before, Mexico has the same repressive rule on journalists that I have NEVER complied with and NEVER will. I just simply LIE to Mexican Customs about the purpose of my visit. Being that I am a USA/Australia dual, I just show my US Passport and get the standard 180-day tourist visa that all American visitors can get at any port of entry in Mexico. Then, all I have to do is connect to my PC back home in Australia to send my story, and anyone on the Mexican side of the connection monitoring what is going on has no CLUE to what is happening. THEY see the address of my PC at home in Australia, but that is ALL they see. They cannot find out what where I am going beyond my PC. Becuase my PC is home in Australia, both it, and its contents are beyond the reach of Mexican law.    if always-on broadband is not available where you are, there are PLENTY of open proxy servers you can use to mask your activities. The two main lists are at AtomIntertSoft (http://www.atomintersoft.com) and Stay Invisible (http://www.stayinvisible.com). What happens is that the address of the proxy you use shows up in the logs, instead of the address of where you are really going. For example, if you use Hotmail to Email stuff back home, they will not know it, as the address of the proxy will show in the logs, instead of Hotmail’s address. If your paper has a VPN for remote access, you can use the list of Socks5 proxy servers, pick a server outside the country and connect through that. The logs will show the address of the proxy you use, but not the VPN you are going to.

Response:

>    As I have said before, Mexico has the same repressive rule on journalists > that I have NEVER complied with and NEVER will.

Why is it that you think requiring a visa for the purpose of "working" is repressive?

Response:

> >    As I have said before, Mexico has the same repressive rule on journalists > that I have NEVER complied with and NEVER will. > Why is it that you think requiring a visa for the purpose of "working" > is repressive?

   If you were going to be in the country long-term, I could see making someone get a journalist visa. But someone who is only going to be in the country for a few days, and then go home again, they should have not have to get a journalist visa, that is where I have my beef with the law. Requiring journalists who are going to only be in the country for a few days to have a special journalist visa is repressive. That is why if I am going to be in a country for a few days, and it is one of the 53 countries where you can enter on either a US or Australian, as a tourist, without a visa, I do not bother to get any special journalist visas, if I am only going to be in the country for a few days. I see no sense in going through all the mess of getting a journalist visa, if I am only going to be in a given country for a few days. News reporting is very time sensitive, and there is often no TIME to get the proper journalist visas. That is why, if I am only going to one of the 53 countries where either a US or Australian passport holder can enter visa-free as a tourist, and I am only going to be there for a few days, I do not bother to comply with the journalist visa requirements. I just leave it off my Customs form (if the country I am entering has one) that I am entering for journalistic reasons, and I have no problem getting into any one of these 53 countries.

Response:

> to be there for a few days, I do not bother to comply with the > journalist visa requirements. I just leave it off my Customs form

That is a bit harder if you have a camera crew with all their equipment. At which point, you can not only not hide the fact that you’re a journalist, but the visa is probably going to help with respect to equipment "import" into the USA.

Response:

> Why is it that you think requiring a visa for the purpose of "working" > is repressive?

a special visa for journalists *is* repressive.  it’s also unconsititutional.  see the first amendment.

Response:

:>> Why is it that you think requiring a visa for the purpose of "working" :>> is repressive? :>a special visa for journalists *is* repressive.  it’s also :>unconsititutional.  see the first amendment. Not at all. Of course, if you are so sure, feel free to ask the US courts for an opinion. — http://www.dissensoftware.com

Response:

>>Why is it that you think requiring a visa for the purpose of "working" >is repressive? > a special visa for journalists *is* repressive.  it’s also > unconsititutional.  see the first amendment.

Why unconstitutional?   There is no constutional right to enter the US AND work without a visa.  It it any less constitutional than taxing newspapers?  The first ammendment doesn’t deal with the press BEFORE they enter the country.  It protects people once they are in the country.  Until you clear Immigration, you are not in the country.

Response:

> If you are meeting a (potential) US supplier for a sales pitch, > then there is no reason the immigration folks should stop you.

Dpending on what exactly the commodity is, I’ve got to think that this is pretty rare.  More likely, if a US company is pitching a product, the purchaser isin’t going to travel to the vendor – the vendor is going to travel to the client. In other words, it’s going to be a foreign salesman that’s going to be the one travelling to the US to make the pitch to a US client. > However, if you plan on knocking on US doors to seek sales > opportunities for foreign products, or worse, seek employment, > then you can expect rough treatment, unless you have the right > paperwork.

To seek employment, yes, I have heard that customs frowns on finding copies of resumes in the bags of "tourists". Regarding on business travel to "knocking on US doors" there is no such paperwork (at least if you’re CDN).  Look.  No saleman is going to spend a thousand bucks to fly to some US destination, crack open a phone book and go door-to-door.  They’re flying to see a specific person for a pre-arranged meeting.  And they don’t need no visa to do it. > FTA/NAFTA didn’t remove the need for paperwork, it only make > it easier to obtain.

No visa paperwork for a CDN sales guy to enter the US (and presumably vice-versa). > The trick is to send a clear message that you are just an > employee doing what your employer has told you what to do, > and that you have no idea of the contract issues between your > company and the company you are visiting.

Um – sometimes it’s a good thing to have this contract in hand (as proof that you are NOT being paid by the person or entity you are visiting).  But yes, you are always asked by immigration who you work for, and even if it’s not true you should not tell them you’re being paid directly by a US client.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t get it.  Where / who posted the (original) message being > quoted? > Would be nice to see the entire article.  Why exactly was it wrong for > an Australian journalist to tell US immigration that she was in the US > to interview a fellow Australian?  What did US immigration do to her > after that? >Nothing wrong with that as long as you have an "I" visa. >Tourists aren’t permitted tow work. The journalist was entering on a >tourist visa and planned to work.

Australians can enter the US for up to 90 days without a visa, on both tourism and business purposes, so shw was fine in this case. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/

Response:

>> If you are meeting a (potential) US supplier for a sales pitch, > then there is no reason the immigration folks should stop you. > Dpending on what exactly the commodity is, I’ve got to think that this > is pretty rare.  More likely, if a US company is pitching a product, > the purchaser isin’t going to travel to the vendor – the vendor is > going to travel to the client.

Plant tours… vendor-arranged meetings with satisfied customers… products too large to ship overseas… design-team meetings… miguel — Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

> Australians can enter the US for up to 90 days without a visa, on both > tourism and business purposes, so shw was fine in this case.

Journalists are excepted from this. miguel — Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

fun in Vienna

Question:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked….

Deciding who has the best pastries? Hotel Imperial? Demels?  If your daughters are teenagers (hopefully), please get them to read "The Lonely Empress" about the last Empress of the Hapsburg Empire – and you will have tons of things to see in Vienna tracking down her history in the city. Have them see the video "Mayerling" as well for that somewhat distortedn highly romantic version of the Crown Prince Rudolph’s double suicide "for love". I think learning as much as you can about the history of Vienna is what opens doors to really enjoying the city sights and walking its streets. The last days of the Belle Epoche is a stirring legacy for any city to have. Heady, romantic stuff. Any waltz concerts somewhere should be a must as well because the musical heritage is also part of Vienna’s story. And there is that new "artists" area warehouse (or something)in the downtown area that would be a more contemporary site to visit for young people.

Response:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > —

Another must is Schoenbrun Palace and its gardens. Get there before 10 a.m. or after 4p.m. to avoid most of the horrible tour bus groups. Regards; Alex

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Another must is Schoenbrun Palace and its gardens. > Get there before 10 a.m. or after 4p.m. to avoid most of the horrible tour > bus groups. > Regards; > Alex

there is also a children’s tour http://www.schoenbrunn.at/eng/schloss/kindermain.html cu Monika

Response:

I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got the Lipizzaners booked…. — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the Hundertwasser House.  Both can be reached by subway and a short walk.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

at the Museumsquartier http://www.mqw.at you will find the Kindermuseum www.kindermuseum.at  something different from the usual tourist stuff… maybe these are wort a visit too:  www.haus-der-musik-wien.at http://www.tmw.at/Mini/index.html http://www.kreativtheater.at/inhaltwienflussabenteuer.html (walt through vienna`s canal system known from the movie the 3rd man – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House.  Both can be reached by subway and a short walk. > I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House.

Grownups can too!  My dream is to move to Vienna and live in one of the apartments there (but I understand it is "subsidized" housing, so not available to non citizens).

Response:

> Posted via http://britishexpats.com > I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…

When your are there have  a dinner at Wiwe Bolte. Absolutely some of the best traditional Austrian cuisine you’ll find. If you like operetta, try the Volksoper, I think they are presenting Wiener Blut by J. Strauss. We have been to two operetta’s there, both were excellent presentations. Regards Alex  –

Response:

> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House. > Grownups can too!  My dream is to move to Vienna and live in one of the > apartments there (but I understand it is "subsidized" housing, so not > available to non citizens).

 Evelyn; We may disagree about moneybelts, but I wholeheartedly agree with wanting to live in Wien! We rented an apartment in Floridsdorf when we last were there, (Dec 27-Jan 3 2002) and found it our best experience there yet. Regards; Alex Starke

Response:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked….

Especially for girls (although boys might enjoy some of the exhibits, too) I heartily recommend the "Puppen und Spielzeug" Museum. They have a fascinating collection of historical dolls and toys, some from the early 1900’s, but many earlier.  The address is Wien 1, Schulhof 4;  telephone 535 38 60.  I was so impressed with it that, when I was getting rid of accumulated belongings (to simplify my life) I sent them a doll-house sized pewter tea set that had belonged to my mother (b. 1894).  …You might find it on display there, if you go.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got the Lipizzaners booked…. — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the Hundertwasser House.  Both can be reached by subway and a short walk.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

at the Museumsquartier http://www.mqw.at you will find the Kindermuseum www.kindermuseum.at  something different from the usual tourist stuff… maybe these are wort a visit too:  www.haus-der-musik-wien.at http://www.tmw.at/Mini/index.html http://www.kreativtheater.at/inhaltwienflussabenteuer.html (walt through vienna`s canal system known from the movie the 3rd man – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House.  Both can be reached by subway and a short walk. > I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House.

Grownups can too!  My dream is to move to Vienna and live in one of the apartments there (but I understand it is "subsidized" housing, so not available to non citizens).

Response:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked….

Especially for girls (although boys might enjoy some of the exhibits, too) I heartily recommend the "Puppen und Spielzeug" Museum. They have a fascinating collection of historical dolls and toys, some from the early 1900’s, but many earlier.  The address is Wien 1, Schulhof 4;  telephone 535 38 60.  I was so impressed with it that, when I was getting rid of accumulated belongings (to simplify my life) I sent them a doll-house sized pewter tea set that had belonged to my mother (b. 1894).  …You might find it on display there, if you go.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

> There is of course the giant ferris wheel in the amusement park, once > considered the largest in the world. And kids should enjoy a look at the > Hundertwasser House. > Grownups can too!  My dream is to move to Vienna and live in one of the > apartments there (but I understand it is "subsidized" housing, so not > available to non citizens).

 Evelyn; We may disagree about moneybelts, but I wholeheartedly agree with wanting to live in Wien! We rented an apartment in Floridsdorf when we last were there, (Dec 27-Jan 3 2002) and found it our best experience there yet. Regards; Alex Starke

Response:

> Posted via http://britishexpats.com > I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…

When your are there have  a dinner at Wiwe Bolte. Absolutely some of the best traditional Austrian cuisine you’ll find. If you like operetta, try the Volksoper, I think they are presenting Wiener Blut by J. Strauss. We have been to two operetta’s there, both were excellent presentations. Regards Alex  –

Response:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked….

Deciding who has the best pastries? Hotel Imperial? Demels?  If your daughters are teenagers (hopefully), please get them to read "The Lonely Empress" about the last Empress of the Hapsburg Empire – and you will have tons of things to see in Vienna tracking down her history in the city. Have them see the video "Mayerling" as well for that somewhat distortedn highly romantic version of the Crown Prince Rudolph’s double suicide "for love". I think learning as much as you can about the history of Vienna is what opens doors to really enjoying the city sights and walking its streets. The last days of the Belle Epoche is a stirring legacy for any city to have. Heady, romantic stuff. Any waltz concerts somewhere should be a must as well because the musical heritage is also part of Vienna’s story. And there is that new "artists" area warehouse (or something)in the downtown area that would be a more contemporary site to visit for young people.

Response:

> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > —

Another must is Schoenbrun Palace and its gardens. Get there before 10 a.m. or after 4p.m. to avoid most of the horrible tour bus groups. Regards; Alex

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be in Vienna for the weekend in April- Any suggestions? I’ll have > my 2 daughters with me but they are great travellers.  We’ve already got > the Lipizzaners booked…. > — > Another must is Schoenbrun Palace and its gardens. > Get there before 10 a.m. or after 4p.m. to avoid most of the horrible tour > bus groups. > Regards; > Alex

there is also a children’s tour http://www.schoenbrunn.at/eng/schloss/kindermain.html cu Monika

Response:

Shengen Visa

Question:

> She was only going to be in transit in Vienna and Frankfurt. Did she > need a Shengen Visa?

Try this website: http://www.eurovisa.info/ — Quintus http://quintusnews.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well here is an interesting one and I’m hoping that someone might know the > correct answer. > My wife was checking into a flight in Odessa, Ukraine to come back to > Singapore. Her travels were from Odessa to Vienna to Frankfurt to > Singapore. Upon checking, she was told that she required a Shengen > Visa becasue she was travelling through two Shengen countries, Austria > and Germany. > They would not let her board the plane until they discovered that she had > a Shengen Visa for a trip we did to Spain a few months ago that was > still valid. > She was only going to be in transit in Vienna and Frankfurt. Did she need > a Shengen Visa? > Yes, she needed a Schengen visa, because she was entering Schengen at one > airport and leaving Schengen from another airport, so technically she was > not transiting in Schengen, but entering Schengen and leaving Schengen. > Sjoerd

What follows is an extract from

comparison of Star Alliance FF programmes

Question:

Not quite all airlines.  The policy at Southwest is that if there is a seat available on the plane at any fare it can be used for an award trip. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You should be able to earn and redeem on all star alliance flights, but > SAS >seems to have very few seats for FF in my experience. > All airlines have limited seating for award travel, particularly if there is > more than one person wishing to travel together.  In our case, with four in > the family, we usually have to ask United to choose our travel dates.  This > year we fly out on Christmas Day.  It is a lot easier if only one person > wished to use award travel. > United has perhaps the best of the *A programs, particularly for VFFs but > some of the former privileges are disappearing.  e.g. for some time now we > cannot use Systemwide Upgrade certificates on a RTW fare.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been in the SAS EuroBonus programme for a number of years, with > Gold status for the past two years. I am really dissatisfied with both > the treatment I have received from Customer Services and the level of > benefits offered generally. As a result, I am planning to join another > scheme, but as I will in all likelihood have to continue to fly (for > practical reasons) on SAS a good part of the time, I want to stay within > the Star Alliance. > Which one should we choose? > I will just make a few comments. First, I agree with the service for > goldmembers. Its very difficult to use your points even for gold members. If > you are only a silver member, there is hardly any benefits at all. They also > have very few seats on each plane available for using your miles. However, > you should remember, that you are not as likely to get upgrades on SAS if > you are elite member of Lufthansa.

I’m not sure what you mean by this, ‘not as likely to get upgrades on SAS’? If you mean the sort of ‘free’ upgrade, where they tell you at check-in or at the gate ‘Oh, by the way, we’re moving you up to business class today; you don’t mind, do you?’, that has only happened to me once in the last few years (with my SAS Gold status)–and it happened to be on a Lufthansa flight! If you mean the paid-with-points upgrade, with SAS it is only possible on their planes, while with Lufthansa it is also possible on Austrian, Lauda and United. Moreover, the SAS upgrade is only on a ’stand-by’ basis, while Lufthansa’s is confirmable. > Its also very difficult to use your > points to claim tickets on another carrier.

With SAS, it’s difficult to use your points on SAS! > If you join Lufthansa, you will > not be able to use your points to travel SAS.

Well, it may be difficult, but it’s got to be possible. That, after all, is one of the reasons for having the alliance. > Living in DK you are stuck > with SAS and theire very high prices and low quality.

Amen to that. > Kennet

cheers, Henry

Response:

> >If you join Lufthansa, you will not be able to use your points to travel SAS. > Why not?  (See above; seems they can be pretty flexible)

Hi I should have mentioned, that in theory you can, but we have tried to book flights on SAS and ist virtually impossible even as a gold member (unless you use FF for business class), so I would imagine, being from another FF program, it would be even harder. You should be able to earn and redeem on all star alliance flights, but SAS seems to have very few seats for FF in my experience.

Response:

>>>If you join Lufthansa, you will not be able to use your points to travel > SAS. >Why not?  (See above; seems they can be pretty flexible) > Hi > I should have mentioned, that in theory you can, but we have tried to book > flights on SAS and ist virtually impossible even as a gold member (unless > you use FF for business class), so I would imagine, being from another FF > program, it would be even harder.

That’s not necessarily true.  We often find it easier to get seats on LH or UA than on AC, using our Aeroplan miles. > You should be able to earn and redeem on all star alliance flights, but SAS > seems to have very few seats for FF in my experience.

Probably few for all Star folks, not just their own.

Response:

> You should be able to earn and redeem on all star alliance flights, but SAS > seems to have very few seats for FF in my experience.

All airlines have limited seating for award travel, particularly if there is more than one person wishing to travel together.  In our case, with four in the family, we usually have to ask United to choose our travel dates.  This year we fly out on Christmas Day.  It is a lot easier if only one person wished to use award travel. United has perhaps the best of the *A programs, particularly for VFFs but some of the former privileges are disappearing.  e.g. for some time now we cannot use Systemwide Upgrade certificates on a RTW fare.

Response:

> Friend of our used to live in Moscow and did his business with LH. He > moved to Germany and was foolish enough to let LH know.  Apparently lost > all his accumulated miles in the process.  Besides, the LH program is > much much worse for residents in Germany than for residents in other > countries.  (Captive customers or not.)

Many airlines do this. KLM’s Flying Dutchman  is horrible in the Netherlands, it takes forever to accumulate enough points, but apparently pretty good in neighbouring countries. Sjoerd

Response:

> I have been in the SAS EuroBonus programme for a number of years, with > Gold status for the past two years. I am really dissatisfied with both > the treatment I have received from Customer Services and the level of > benefits offered generally. As a result, I am planning to join another > scheme, but as I will in all likelihood have to continue to fly (for > practical reasons) on SAS a good part of the time, I want to stay within > the Star Alliance. > Which one should we choose?

I will just make a few comments. First, I agree with the service for goldmembers. Its very difficult to use your points even for gold members. If you are only a silver member, there is hardly any benefits at all. They also have very few seats on each plane available for using your miles. However, you should remember, that you are not as likely to get upgrades on SAS if you are elite member of Lufthansa. Its also very difficult to use your points to claim tickets on another carrier. If you join Lufthansa, you will not be able to use your points to travel SAS. Living in DK you are stuck with SAS and theire very high prices and low quality. Kennet

Response:

Alliance FF programmes", to which I would like to add the following: >I will just make a few comments. First, I agree with the service for >goldmembers. Its very difficult to use your points even for gold members. If >you are only a silver member, there is hardly any benefits at all. They also >have very few seats on each plane available for using your miles. However, >you should remember, that you are not as likely to get upgrades on SAS if >you are elite member of Lufthansa. Its also very difficult to use your >points to claim tickets on another carrier.

I’m just doing that… I have a bunch of miles on Thai Airways (most miles actually came from ANA flights to the US) and I’m able to book a return flight to Europe on Lufthansa connecting in Germany (going there) and on Austrian connecting in Vienna coming back.  That spans about as many locations and airlines as you can imagine.  The Lufthansa person in Bangkok was extrememly sweet and helpful on the phone as well trying to get me on a later flight the same day which had just one seat available. Also I found out I missed out on Gold status by just 490 miles last year (already 8 months ago) and the Thai Airways Royal Orchid person gave me Gold anyway after I wrote an e-mail expressing how sad I was about just missing gold status and if I had know I was that close I would have just purchased the 500 miles or taken an extra weekend holiday puddle jump flight somewhere. (Gold status by the way includes some free threshold miles and a free upgrade to business class on a flight of your choice; (better believe that’s going to be one of the nightmare SE Asia to East Coast US flights.. >If you join Lufthansa, you will not be able to use your points to travel SAS.

Why not?  (See above; seems they can be pretty flexible) Cheers, Chanchao

Response:

I can only tell you that I am *very* happy with Lufthansa Miles and More. Just this week, they surprised me with a lot of bonus miles for I don’t know what. And they were very flexible last year when I wanted a Europe to Canada return with three stop-overs; they just charged me the normal Europe to North America miles. And they always seem to have free tickets available, even on holidays and busy travel days, if you book at least some 6 weeks before the trip. Sjoerd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would appreciate comments from members of any of the Star Alliance > airlines’ Frequent Flyer programmes, especially if you have experience > with two or more of such plans (for purposes of comparison). > I have been in the SAS EuroBonus programme for a number of years, with > Gold status for the past two years. I am really dissatisfied with both > the treatment I have received from Customer Services and the level of > benefits offered generally. As a result, I am planning to join another > scheme, but as I will in all likelihood have to continue to fly (for > practical reasons) on SAS a good part of the time, I want to stay within > the Star Alliance. > We have a couple of trips coming up before the end of the year and > another RTW in 2003, so whatever plan we join we should be back to Gold > level pretty soon. > Which one should we choose? > cheers, > Henry

Response:

I would appreciate comments from members of any of the Star Alliance airlines’ Frequent Flyer programmes, especially if you have experience with two or more of such plans (for purposes of comparison). I have been in the SAS EuroBonus programme for a number of years, with Gold status for the past two years. I am really dissatisfied with both the treatment I have received from Customer Services and the level of benefits offered generally. As a result, I am planning to join another scheme, but as I will in all likelihood have to continue to fly (for practical reasons) on SAS a good part of the time, I want to stay within the Star Alliance. We have a couple of trips coming up before the end of the year and another RTW in 2003, so whatever plan we join we should be back to Gold level pretty soon. Which one should we choose? cheers, Henry

Response:

> I would appreciate comments from members of any of the Star Alliance > airlines’ Frequent Flyer programmes, especially if you have experience > with two or more of such plans (for purposes of comparison).

I’m very happy with bmi British Midland Diamond Club.  They offer point accrual on all fares, it’s fairly easy to get up to Silver – a couple of long-hauls, even in coach, will nearly do it – they staff are friendly and any mistakes with points not being credited are quickly put right.  You can read about the points they credit and so on at www.flybmi.com The only thing is, you have to do two full-fare economy or business class returns on bmi to join (you do now – I joined in 1990!). Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I would appreciate comments from members of any of the Star Alliance > airlines’ Frequent Flyer programmes, especially if you have experience > with two or more of such plans (for purposes of comparison). > I have been in the SAS EuroBonus programme for a number of years, with > Gold status for the past two years. I am really dissatisfied with both > the treatment I have received from Customer Services and the level of > benefits offered generally. As a result, I am planning to join another > scheme, but as I will in all likelihood have to continue to fly (for > practical reasons) on SAS a good part of the time, I want to stay within > the Star Alliance. > We have a couple of trips coming up before the end of the year and > another RTW in 2003, so whatever plan we join we should be back to Gold > level pretty soon. > Which one should we choose?

It’s not as easy as it sounds.  There are definite differences, many of which are not publicized but only appear in the material sent to their FFs.  I can tell you about Aeroplan Elite and superElite. Also, it depends on your travel patterns, especially the country/city that you are traveling from.  In my case, I have little choice but for Aeroplan, because the only realistic option out of here is AC, and they only upgrade their own FFs, and only on AC-operated flights.  UA might be an option, except it’s not particularly enjoyable to have to go through US immigration every time I go anywhere in the world. I looked at the ANA program the other day.  I was surprised to note that miles for the new Star Alliance multi-airlines awards were somewhat different from AC’s. Friend of our used to live in Moscow and did his business with LH. He moved to Germany and was foolish enough to let LH know.  Apparently lost all his accumulated miles in the process.  Besides, the LH program is much much worse for residents in Germany than for residents in other countries.  (Captive customers or not.)

Response:

One day: Zagreb or Ljubljana?

Question:

> Just one person’s opinion. Ljubljana is a great place to "hang out." Zagreb > has more to see in the way of "official" tourist stuff, but I’m kind of in > love with Slovenia. There is something wonderful about a country whose > national hero is an architect rather than a general.

Plecnik (the architect) is highly revered, but the national hero is a poet (Preseren).  Slovenia is one of the few nations on earth to observe a national cultural holiday – the anniversary of the death of the great poet Pre

Looking for inexpensive, but clean accommodation in Frankfurt

Question:

Hi Melandre, The difficulty with your question is that it is not clear if you are a millionare or poor – the point being cheap is relative.   As a fellow Canadian I have always found accommodation in Germany dear!  Youth hostel or camping is comfortable and affordable for me.  Also whenever I was in the tourist office in Frankfurt people were being directed to nearby towns a short train trip away as Frankfurt accommodations were solidly booked.  Of course, hostels are never mentioned by the tourist office.

Response:

> My husband and I will be landing in Frankfurt on the evening of May 12 > and will likely spend a night or two there.  Can anyone recommend a > decent place to stay that is fairly cheap?  Also, we plan to take a > train from Frankfurt to Vienna.  Does anybody know how much > approximately this would cost and how long is the trip?  Any info > would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. > Melanie

A hotel search site: http://www.hrs.com You may like to stay in Mainz instead of Frankfurt (the airport is between Frankfurt and Mainz) http://www.mainz.de/english/index.htm Accommodation http://www.info-mainz.de/verkehrsverein/index_e.htm click on accommodation, than hotels, most expensive hotels first (Preiskategorie 1), cheapest last (Category 5). Timetable for trains http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html Airport) or MZ (Mainz Hbf) To: Vienna Have a look to the Saver Ticket prices to Austria and if you can use this offer. http://www.bahn.de/pv/int_guest/true/pv2_offers_international.shtml 2nd person pays only 50% of these prices. 8-9 hours. Price for 2 travellers with the Saver Ticket (return, 2nd class): EUR 222,-.

Response:

My husband and I will be landing in Frankfurt on the evening of May 12 and will likely spend a night or two there.  Can anyone recommend a decent place to stay that is fairly cheap?  Also, we plan to take a train from Frankfurt to Vienna.  Does anybody know how much approximately this would cost and how long is the trip?  Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Melanie

Response:

My husband and I will be landing in Frankfurt on the evening of May 12 and will likely spend a night or two there.  Can anyone recommend a decent place to stay that is fairly cheap?  Also, we plan to take a train from Frankfurt to Vienna.  Does anybody know how much approximately this would cost and how long is the trip?  Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Melanie

Response:

Hi Melandre, The difficulty with your question is that it is not clear if you are a millionare or poor – the point being cheap is relative.   As a fellow Canadian I have always found accommodation in Germany dear!  Youth hostel or camping is comfortable and affordable for me.  Also whenever I was in the tourist office in Frankfurt people were being directed to nearby towns a short train trip away as Frankfurt accommodations were solidly booked.  Of course, hostels are never mentioned by the tourist office.

Response:

> My husband and I will be landing in Frankfurt on the evening of May 12 > and will likely spend a night or two there.  Can anyone recommend a > decent place to stay that is fairly cheap?  Also, we plan to take a > train from Frankfurt to Vienna.  Does anybody know how much > approximately this would cost and how long is the trip?  Any info > would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance. > Melanie

A hotel search site: http://www.hrs.com You may like to stay in Mainz instead of Frankfurt (the airport is between Frankfurt and Mainz) http://www.mainz.de/english/index.htm Accommodation http://www.info-mainz.de/verkehrsverein/index_e.htm click on accommodation, than hotels, most expensive hotels first (Preiskategorie 1), cheapest last (Category 5). Timetable for trains http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html Airport) or MZ (Mainz Hbf) To: Vienna Have a look to the Saver Ticket prices to Austria and if you can use this offer. http://www.bahn.de/pv/int_guest/true/pv2_offers_international.shtml 2nd person pays only 50% of these prices. 8-9 hours. Price for 2 travellers with the Saver Ticket (return, 2nd class): EUR 222,-.

Response:

Air Travel to Austria

Question:

I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? Kevin Bromberg

Response:

assuming you are flying from US you will change planes in Amsterdam, London, or Frankfurt. We just bought tickets from SF to Linz At. high Season for $683.  I have seen them for $638 I don’t have links here but they were hard to find. — "These are the times that try men’s souls."  Tom Paine Marc B. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

Response:

> assuming you are flying from US you will change planes in Amsterdam, London, > or Frankfurt.

Austrian Airlines offers Washington-Vienna nonstop! lg Gernot

Response:

Here is the English language web site for Vienna Airport http://english.viennaairport.com/ You may find it useful. I think there are direct flights from New York JFK to Vienna, that may be your cheapest option.  Enjoy your trip…

Response:

There are a number of online travel agencies.  I prefer Expedia (www.expedia.com) which shows non-stop Dulles to Vienna on Austrian airlines.  Costs in your time frame for midweek travel look to be about $1100.  Varying the dates a bit will result in different prices if you are flexible.  Once you select a flight, they may also offer hotel packages that I have sometimes found worthwhile.  The hotel package options may be non-cancellable but Expedia also usually offer a cancellation option covering the whole trip (air and hotel) for a modest fee (it has been $35 the times I have used it). Other online travel agencies may get you the same thing.  I prefer Expedia because I have found them consistently the best in prices, they allow open-jaws and multiple airport trips, and the site is easy to use.  Also, I have never had any ticket mixups. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving > in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to > Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate > trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through > London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? > Kevin Bromberg

Response:

> I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving > in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to > Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate > trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through > London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? > Kevin Bromberg

  Try www.austrianair.com    I’ve flown the Washington-Vienna nonstop with them.  I don’t know if they are the cheapest during the summer, but they had the best price last October when I flew. KV

Response:

Kevin, You can try this url I saw on frommer’s web site. It has 50 different search engines and descriptions. I bought from DER for a trip in June to Munich from Baltimore. http://www.frommers.com/features/articles/0202_4a.html Ken Norris >I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving >in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to >Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate >trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through >London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? >Kevin Bromberg

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Response:

Hi, I was interested in your inquiry myself as I’m tenatively planning a trip to Europe this summer.  I recently discovered Orbitz.com as an online travel service and have had great success.  Its got a easily-navigated site and fantastic deals.  I looked up flights to Vienna and thought that they were very good, and from what I could tell through a quick comparison, cheaper than expedia and travelocity.  I just thought you might like the suggestion.  Have a great trip.

Response:

I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? Kevin Bromberg

Response:

assuming you are flying from US you will change planes in Amsterdam, London, or Frankfurt. We just bought tickets from SF to Linz At. high Season for $683.  I have seen them for $638 I don’t have links here but they were hard to find. — "These are the times that try men’s souls."  Tom Paine Marc B. —–=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers!  ==—–

Response:

> assuming you are flying from US you will change planes in Amsterdam, London, > or Frankfurt.

Austrian Airlines offers Washington-Vienna nonstop! lg Gernot

Response:

Here is the English language web site for Vienna Airport http://english.viennaairport.com/ You may find it useful. I think there are direct flights from New York JFK to Vienna, that may be your cheapest option.  Enjoy your trip…

Response:

There are a number of online travel agencies.  I prefer Expedia (www.expedia.com) which shows non-stop Dulles to Vienna on Austrian airlines.  Costs in your time frame for midweek travel look to be about $1100.  Varying the dates a bit will result in different prices if you are flexible.  Once you select a flight, they may also offer hotel packages that I have sometimes found worthwhile.  The hotel package options may be non-cancellable but Expedia also usually offer a cancellation option covering the whole trip (air and hotel) for a modest fee (it has been $35 the times I have used it). Other online travel agencies may get you the same thing.  I prefer Expedia because I have found them consistently the best in prices, they allow open-jaws and multiple airport trips, and the site is easy to use.  Also, I have never had any ticket mixups. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving > in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to > Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate > trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through > London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? > Kevin Bromberg

Response:

> I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving > in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to > Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate > trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through > London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? > Kevin Bromberg

  Try www.austrianair.com    I’ve flown the Washington-Vienna nonstop with them.  I don’t know if they are the cheapest during the summer, but they had the best price last October when I flew. KV

Response:

Kevin, You can try this url I saw on frommer’s web site. It has 50 different search engines and descriptions. I bought from DER for a trip in June to Munich from Baltimore. http://www.frommers.com/features/articles/0202_4a.html Ken Norris >I am planning to travel from Washington DC to Vienna Austria.  Leaving >in late June and returning in July.  What is the cheapest airfare to >Vienna?  Should we get a roundtrip from London, and fly a separate >trip between London and Austria (two roundtrips?)Do we connect through >London?  Should we contact a travel agent that specializes in Austria? >Kevin Bromberg

Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com    With NINE Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

Hi, I was interested in your inquiry myself as I’m tenatively planning a trip to Europe this summer.  I recently discovered Orbitz.com as an online travel service and have had great success.  Its got a easily-navigated site and fantastic deals.  I looked up flights to Vienna and thought that they were very good, and from what I could tell through a quick comparison, cheaper than expedia and travelocity.  I just thought you might like the suggestion.  Have a great trip.

Response:

Business Class NYC/Germany

Question:

> > Air Littoral? Very small seats indeed, but service was excellent. > Do they still run LH flights on their CRJs?  Complete with German > business class catering, with German wines served by these very Southern > French flight attendants?

Can’t tell you because my flight was from Nice to Geneva…. Tatjana

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am looking to fly business class to Germany in May or June.  I am > > very tall and the coach seats kill me for long flights.  I have found > fares > > ranging from $3000 – $6000.  The cheapest was SAS, the most > > expensive Lufthansa.  My questions: > > 1.  Is SAS any good?  I don’t mind stopping in Copenhagen for a short > time, so that is no big deal. > Yes one of the best. Especially in business you can expect excellent > service. And you have much space on the transatlantic trip. > But if space is a real problem you may know that in most connecting > flights Copenhagen-Germany you have the same seat pitch in business as > economy. Usually  MD80s or eventually B737s are used. Perhaps they > can accommodate you in the front row ? > As usual, Lennart is correct.  SAS is a fine airline.  I have flown with > them a few > times.  I recommend you contact a local travel agent to ask about cheaper > SAS > fares.  SAS and Finnair, another fine airline, often sell blocks of seats to > resellers. > Finnair often sells tours through Norvista http://www.nordiquetours.com/ > that > offer business class upgrades.  Your travel agent may offer a cheaper > business > class fare.  The usual Internet web sites will not give you what you need. > Lennart is also correct about business class in Europe.  Unlike in the USA, > where first or business class offer more legroom, European business class > only > offers better food, leather seats (sometimes this is no different than > economy), > and a higher luggage weight allowance.  Tell your travel agent to only book > you > on business class over the ocean to save money. > One last word of advice: do not take the first row of business class in SAS, > or > on most overseas flights.  The bulkhead seat will give you a little more > knee > room, but will give less actual legroom.  The 2nd and later rows allow you > to > stretch your legs beneath the seat in front of you.  The bulkhead prevents > you > from completely stretching your legs out. > Sam

(apologies if this has been said before – I havent been following this thread) Its fair to say that *some* seats are the same on intra-European flights but some have a big difference. BUT what you will notice is the very small gap between full fare economy and biz class: for many flights, this is less than 10%. Having said that, if you buy cheap economy seats, the difference could be massive. Like all things, check what you are getting vs. cost. I wouldn’t ever pay full fare economy when I can get biz for a little more, but then I cant remember when I last had to pay full fare economy anyway! There are also discounted biz tickets from some sources that come out cheaper than IATA economy (but are limited, usually, to a single carrier).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As many people have mentioned, be very careful of inter-European > flights – they may call it First or Business class, but that could > just mean an economy seat in the front 2 rows of the plane with a gift > of a pen (SwissAir) > Hey, I did not get one! I also found the food pretty bad….. > or 1 1/2 economy seats with no extra pitch > (Lufthansa) or an ecomony seat with a different print fabric (Air > Provencale – can’t remember carrier – flight to Nice) > Air Littoral? Very small seats indeed, but service was excellent.

Do they still run LH flights on their CRJs?  Complete with German business class catering, with German wines served by these very Southern French flight attendants?

Response:

> > I am looking to fly business class to Germany in May or June.  I am > very tall and the coach seats kill me for long flights.  I have found fares > ranging from $3000 – $6000.  The cheapest was SAS, the most > expensive Lufthansa.  My questions: > 1.  Is SAS any good?  I don’t mind stopping in Copenhagen for a short > time, so that is no big deal. > Yes one of the best. Especially in business you can expect excellent > service. And you have much space on the transatlantic trip. > But if space is a real problem you may know that in most connecting > flights Copenhagen-Germany you have the same seat pitch in business as > economy. Usually  MD80s or eventually B737s are used. Perhaps they > can accommodate you in the front row ?

As usual, Lennart is correct.  SAS is a fine airline.  I have flown with them a few times.  I recommend you contact a local travel agent to ask about cheaper SAS fares.  SAS and Finnair, another fine airline, often sell blocks of seats to resellers. Finnair often sells tours through Norvista http://www.nordiquetours.com/ that offer business class upgrades.  Your travel agent may offer a cheaper business class fare.  The usual Internet web sites will not give you what you need. Lennart is also correct about business class in Europe.  Unlike in the USA, where first or business class offer more legroom, European business class only offers better food, leather seats (sometimes this is no different than economy), and a higher luggage weight allowance.  Tell your travel agent to only book you on business class over the ocean to save money. One last word of advice: do not take the first row of business class in SAS, or on most overseas flights.  The bulkhead seat will give you a little more knee room, but will give less actual legroom.  The 2nd and later rows allow you to stretch your legs beneath the seat in front of you.  The bulkhead prevents you from completely stretching your legs out. Sam

Response:

Thanks for all responses.  I will buy ticket and update you about what kind of deal I got.  thanks again to all. Lance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve used a web company called 1st Air for discounted first and business > class > tickets.  They can save you thousands, and we’ve had no problems with them. > We’ve even gotten frequent flier miles for the flights.  Here is their > website: > They get yu to fly from Canda apparently

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As many people have mentioned, be very careful of inter-European > flights – they may call it First or Business class, but that could > just mean an economy seat in the front 2 rows of the plane with a gift > of a pen (SwissAir) > Hey, I did not get one! I also found the food pretty bad….. > or 1 1/2 economy seats with no extra pitch > (Lufthansa) or an ecomony seat with a different print fabric (Air > Provencale – can’t remember carrier – flight to Nice) > Air Littoral? Very small seats indeed, but service was excellent. > Tatjana

That’s it – yes, the service was excellent!

Response:

I’ve used a web company called 1st Air for discounted first and business class tickets.  They can save you thousands, and we’ve had no problems with them. We’ve even gotten frequent flier miles for the flights.  Here is their website: http://www.1st-air.net/ Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello, > I am looking to fly business class to Germany in May or June.  I am very > tall and the coach seats kill me for long flights.  I have found fares > ranging from $3000 – $6000.  The cheapest was SAS, the most expensive > Lufthansa.  My questions: > 1.  Is SAS any good?  I don’t mind stopping in Copenhagen for a short time, > so that is no big deal. > 2.  Is there any agent or web site that gives discounts on Business or first > class tickets? > Thanks for your help.  Look forward to hearing from you.  cheers. > Lance

Response:

> I’ve used a web company called 1st Air for discounted first and business > class > tickets.  They can save you thousands, and we’ve had no problems with them. > We’ve even gotten frequent flier miles for the flights.  Here is their > website:

They get yu to fly from Canda apparently

Response:

> 2.  Is there any agent or web site that gives discounts on Business or first > class tickets? > Thanks for your help.  Look forward to hearing from you.  cheers.

This is a website dedicated to cheap business and first class tickets. It

Pension / Hotel in Vienna

Question:

> Why is the second district not recommended?  Does it not contain > many pensions and/or hotels?  Is it a noisy district (red light district)?

Yes. You might end up in one of "those" hotels.

Response:

> > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like > to find a Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably > priced. > I’d advise you against the second district. The best and most central > areas are the first, seventh and eighth district. This is where most > hotels and pensions are located.

Why is the second district not recommended?  Does it not contain many pensions and/or hotels?  Is it a noisy district (red light district)? Sam

Response:

Pension Pertschy http://www.hotels-austria.com/Vienna-center/pertschy.htm. Stayed there last Fall and it was perfect; clean, reasonably priced, wonderful breakfast, and quiet – right in the center. Word of advice…. DO NOT DRIVE in Vienna if you can avoid it!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens >  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —– >   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

Response:

I,too, was going to recommend this pension. My family stayed there years and years ago, probably before the renovation mentioned below. It was well located, in a very old section of the city and, most memorable, each morning they wheeled in a table to our room just laden with breakfast foods. We had enough that we made sandwiches for the day with what we did not eat. They have a web site through an umbrella hotel site. I have found them by searching "Pension City". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband and I went to Vienna in February 2000 and stayed at the Hotel > Pension City. It is on the second floor of an historic building and is near > St. Stephens Cathedral, close to the subway. The rate at the time for a > double and private bathroom was ATS 1130 per night (approx $73 USD). > They served continental breakfast in a little dining room. The place had > been renovated in recent years. Our room was comfortable and clean. > Hotel Pension City > VIENNA > Fax 011-43-1-535-5216 > BTW- If you get a chance, stop by Demel (Kohlmarket 14) for the best > pastries and desserts! Try the mohnpotitze. I forget what it was, but a very > nice lady who worked in a craft store on Herrengasse recommended it, and it > was very good! If you are looking to buy nice gifts (esp. ornaments), I > think the store was Heimatwerk at Herrengasse 6. > –Jean > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Hello, I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room bathroom. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Bruce Stevens  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

My husband and I went to Vienna in February 2000 and stayed at the Hotel Pension City. It is on the second floor of an historic building and is near St. Stephens Cathedral, close to the subway. The rate at the time for a double and private bathroom was ATS 1130 per night (approx $73 USD). They served continental breakfast in a little dining room. The place had been renovated in recent years. Our room was comfortable and clean. Hotel Pension City VIENNA Fax 011-43-1-535-5216 BTW- If you get a chance, stop by Demel (Kohlmarket 14) for the best pastries and desserts! Try the mohnpotitze. I forget what it was, but a very nice lady who worked in a craft store on Herrengasse recommended it, and it was very good! If you are looking to buy nice gifts (esp. ornaments), I think the store was Heimatwerk at Herrengasse 6. –Jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Hello, I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room bathroom. Any help appreciated. Thanks, Bruce Stevens  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

My husband and I went to Vienna in February 2000 and stayed at the Hotel Pension City. It is on the second floor of an historic building and is near St. Stephens Cathedral, close to the subway. The rate at the time for a double and private bathroom was ATS 1130 per night (approx $73 USD). They served continental breakfast in a little dining room. The place had been renovated in recent years. Our room was comfortable and clean. Hotel Pension City VIENNA Fax 011-43-1-535-5216 BTW- If you get a chance, stop by Demel (Kohlmarket 14) for the best pastries and desserts! Try the mohnpotitze. I forget what it was, but a very nice lady who worked in a craft store on Herrengasse recommended it, and it was very good! If you are looking to buy nice gifts (esp. ornaments), I think the store was Heimatwerk at Herrengasse 6. –Jean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Pension Pertschy http://www.hotels-austria.com/Vienna-center/pertschy.htm. Stayed there last Fall and it was perfect; clean, reasonably priced, wonderful breakfast, and quiet – right in the center. Word of advice…. DO NOT DRIVE in Vienna if you can avoid it!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens >  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —– >   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

Response:

I,too, was going to recommend this pension. My family stayed there years and years ago, probably before the renovation mentioned below. It was well located, in a very old section of the city and, most memorable, each morning they wheeled in a table to our room just laden with breakfast foods. We had enough that we made sandwiches for the day with what we did not eat. They have a web site through an umbrella hotel site. I have found them by searching "Pension City". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband and I went to Vienna in February 2000 and stayed at the Hotel > Pension City. It is on the second floor of an historic building and is near > St. Stephens Cathedral, close to the subway. The rate at the time for a > double and private bathroom was ATS 1130 per night (approx $73 USD). > They served continental breakfast in a little dining room. The place had > been renovated in recent years. Our room was comfortable and clean. > Hotel Pension City > VIENNA > Fax 011-43-1-535-5216 > BTW- If you get a chance, stop by Demel (Kohlmarket 14) for the best > pastries and desserts! Try the mohnpotitze. I forget what it was, but a very > nice lady who worked in a craft store on Herrengasse recommended it, and it > was very good! If you are looking to buy nice gifts (esp. ornaments), I > think the store was Heimatwerk at Herrengasse 6. > –Jean > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts > Organization: NewsOne.Net – Free Usenet News via the Web – http://newsone.net/ > Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe > Hello, > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like to find a > Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably priced. > I would also look at hotels if I cannot find a reasonably priced Pension. > I want someplace clean, safe, with included breakfast and an in-room > bathroom. > Any help appreciated. > Thanks, > Bruce Stevens > —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —– > http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups > NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

> > I am travelling to Vienna for the first week of April. I would like > to find a Pension in the first or second Bezirke that is reasonably > priced. > I’d advise you against the second district. The best and most central > areas are the first, seventh and eighth district. This is where most > hotels and pensions are located.

Why is the second district not recommended?  Does it not contain many pensions and/or hotels?  Is it a noisy district (red light district)? Sam

Response:

> Why is the second district not recommended?  Does it not contain > many pensions and/or hotels?  Is it a noisy district (red light district)?

Yes. You might end up in one of "those" hotels.

Response: